Podcast Transcript
Lila Shakti Mayi
Omajana jnananjana shalakaya, chakshu on meleta, Tama Sri Guru, namaha, tapir Kana go rangiravirus, pranamami, Hari PE Om Shanti,
Om Shanti, Shanti Shanti.
Avi Gordon
Thank you. I noticed, like so much, care to every sound, every syllable. Is that what part of what interests you in studying Sanskrit,
Lila Shakti Mayi
it is so exciting to be able to access these words that are so inherently infused with so much power and magic, and I love I’m kind of a nerd for Sanskrit grammar and pronunciation, and I just love knowing how to pronounce them and and then going slow with it and just savoring these, even these little syllables, just a single syllable in Sanskrit, can contain the essence of Guru, for example, or the essence of the Goddess. I mean, it’s so just unfathomable.
Avi Gordon
How can a word or syllable be that powerful contain power?
Lila Shakti Mayi
Well, Sanskrit is called the dev Avani, which means language of the gods, and the script itself is called Devanagari, which means the City of the Gods. And I don’t have a response to that question that would be able to fully satisfy it, but one thing that I do feel cautious about is actually putting the Sanskrit language up on too much of a pedestal, because all language is powerful and all language is sacred, and people who don’t know Sanskrit or don’t know how to pronounce Sanskrit correctly aren’t missing out. We know that when we infuse whatever language we’re speaking with our intentions or with some strong emotion, whether it’s fear or longing, that it has an effect on those words, and it’s the same in the Sanskrit language. But what I think the difference is, is that there is a an ability for the syllables to absorb more of our intentions, are, whatever is going on in our heart. It’s like the syllable. The syllables are more fertile. They can take in more of what what we want to infuse them with. And then it doesn’t even matter if you don’t know that you’re pronouncing it incorrectly. For example, it’s it’s about what’s in your heart, and using this mystical language as a tool to not only be able to more effectively express what’s in your heart, within your sort of inner realm of contemplation and meditation, or in Kirtan, where you’re singing out, you’re calling out, but also it’s something that is a constant. It can be a constant companion. It can become a personal tool that you can use, even if you’ve never studied a lick of it in any formal sense. How
Avi Gordon
is it like that for you? How do you. Use it as a tool.
Lila Shakti Mayi
Well, I I’ve gone through a sort of, there’s been this whole arc of the journey that I’ve gone through with the Sanskrit language. Because when I was first starting out with mantras and with sacred texts written in the Sanskrit language, there was a lot of there was a lot in the way of my being able to make it personal to me. There were expectations that I was importing onto myself in terms of what mantras I should be saying or shouldn’t be saying, and how often I should be saying them. And there was a lot of sort of using it in a very ritualistic way that involved even just my thinking that I could judge my spiritual advancement and where I am on the spiritual path according to how much I was engaging with mantras, either through japa or saying them before meals, etc, and and some of the the mantras that I was saying during that time that, like I was saying a few minutes ago, the energy, how, the energy that we bring to these these words, really gets infused into them. Well, that energy of restrictiveness and should, shouldn’t and rigidity and harshness and self criticism and fear. If I don’t do this, then what will happen to me in an ultimate spiritual sense, all of that got infused, deeply infused into some of the mantras that I was saying at the time, and it’s been a long process to allow myself to come into contact with mantras that I wasn’t saying or verses that I wasn’t focusing on back then, and To start to feel freedom within my relationship with them and to claim them as something that does help me feel more connected to myself and is not a tool for shame, not a tool for reminding me that I’m not enough In some way, but that they actually are the exact opposite. They are tools for reminding ourselves of how precious we are, just for being that Tuomas e that just because you are, that just because I am, that I am so connected and so loved and wanted and precious, and so that’s been the sort of transformation that I’ve gone through, is to come to a place where I can let go of the Sanskrit language in Various ways, being something that I was using to affirm my lack of preciousness. And now and I’m and I’m, there’s still work to be done, but I but it’s so much easier for me now to have an experience of love when I’m saying or singing a mantra that I have developed a trusting relationship with over time, just like in your relationship with a human being, it takes time to build trust and to build A sense of safety, and it’s one thing for people to say that, Oh, this mantra is so powerful, and if you chant it a certain number of times every day for however long, then you’re going to experience this result, or whatever it might be, whatever prescription, common, social spiritually, social prescription might be surrounding a particular mantra, or just the idea of mantras and shlokas in general, allowing yourself to slowly, at your own pace, develop your own individual, specific relationship with what calls to your heart?
Avi Gordon
Yeah, I was gonna mention the heart actually. I’m wondering if that’s like a forgetting the need for the heart to be involved, right? Like, just, Okay, here’s the prescription, yeah, say this this number of times. But is the heart involved? Yeah,
Lila Shakti Mayi
and do we want the heart to be involved? Because part of the prescription, part of the attraction to the prescription, I think, is that it then it can give us a sort of in to using these, these practices as a form of spiritual bypassing. So if we have a formula, if we have a prescription that we are fully depending on in a way that is disconnecting us from our heart, then it might be allowing us to avoid some things that are going on in our heart that are really painful and that would be really challenging to sit with and to learn how to care for. There’s so much that comes up, especially when, when, when engaging with these mantras, I mean, they unearth so much from the depths of our heart and those pains and disappointments and feelings of emptiness or loneliness are really challenging to sit with, and so I think that we need to Be careful with not over relying on prescriptions or over relying on a structured practice in a way that it allows us to Maybe continue avoiding discomfort.
Avi Gordon
So have you found that discomfort is really that the way is to look at it, to investigate what the discomfort is, is that what you practice
Lila Shakti Mayi
eventually, that happens organically, this sort of analyzing and the unraveling of what is this, what is, what is, what is the information behind the fear? For example, what’s why is it there? What’s going on? But what I’ve learned that I need to do first is actually practice empathy with it self empathy, so just validating its existence, that it is here. There is a reason why it’s here. I don’t need to know what that reason is right now, the fact is that it has arisen, and especially when it’s something painful, it means that there’s there’s it wants to be cared for. When it comes up, it wants to be seen and it wants to be cared for without being fixed necessarily, and without being changed or remedied, but just to be able to hold it and in in practicing that we automatically get space from it. So it is the first step in, in healing, because we’re developing a relationship with it from our sort of wise adult self. We’re coming at it from one angle, while it’s over here, and we’re trying to provide it with care. And so we’re already separate from it, in a sense, and so that means that we already do have the ability to not continue to unconsciously be in its grips. But yeah, so I like to make sure that I just let it be in its fullness first before the sort of natural self inquiry process begins where I want to dissect it and understand what’s behind it.
Avi Gordon
Yeah, I wonder if what you’re saying happens naturally, when my relationship with myself changes, right, when I really believe that I’m a precious being Yes, right, and that I don’t have anything to prove. Yeah, no, there’s nothing to fix. Yeah? Like, if that’s the foundation now, yeah, of course, if I really believe that, then whatever is there and coming up is acceptable, because it’s a part of that.
Lila Shakti Mayi
Yes, I have chills. That’s exactly it. It’s like full self acceptance, full acceptance of just what is right now.
Avi Gordon
Yeah, I spend a lot of time thinking about what gets in the way of that, you know, both for myself and on a on a larger level, because on one level, it’s very it’s like, obvious that that should be the case, like, Oh my gosh. Like, we’re these incredible beings, you know, and animals too. And just like, the appropriate response to life to me is like, awe and wonder. Like, what is this? Situation that we’re in, like, living on this planet with all this variety, the variety is always what catches me the most. Yeah, like that, every person is unique, and every leaf is unique. And like, like, what? How can there be so much variety so but in a way, I think it’s the variety, the immensity of it, can also catch us in a way, when the comparison game, it’s the comparison game, I think that ultimately, is the greatest obstacle in that the need to compare myself to other human beings.
Lila Shakti Mayi
Yeah, what I’ve experienced personally is, is it’s for me, it’s been fear, especially because, well, and I guess it does involve comparison, because I don’t see it mod. I mean, in society at large, you know, we’re sort of sheltered at yoga Ville here, but definitely in society at large, it’s not something that’s modeled that I am just so worthy of an abundant life, just because I am. You know, all the cues when we were growing up, maybe in our family of origin, the cues are that somehow I have to go out and be a go getter, and I have to build something for myself, and I have to strive, and I I have to constantly improve, make sure that I’m good enough, make sure that I’m progressing. And that’s like the antithesis to what we’re talking about. And even even in the shelter of a spiritual community, there are, I have found that I’ve had a lot of fear of being judged as being selfish, or that I have or that I will one day discover that I’m a very selfish person, and this work of learning to authentically experience our own preciousness and to trust it, to trust that it’s safe To not have other expectations of ourself is something that requires so much inner work and and focus on what’s going on in my mind right now, what’s going on in my heart right now, but the cues in In spiritual teachings, there’s so many warnings about being selfish and that it’s so wrapped up in the ego and that it’s actually something that can prevent us from going in the direction that we would like to go, this fear of being selfish and being self centered. And I think that there is a misunderstanding around that huge misunderstanding around that I heard on a recording with Swami Satchidananda a couple weeks ago. He was talking about how the function of the mind is to think thoughts, and so we may need to make sure that we’re thinking thoughts that don’t disturb the mind. And what are thoughts that don’t disturb the mind. Well, there are selfless thoughts and selfish thoughts disturb the mind. And then he went on to say that selfish thoughts, or selfishness, is something that involves an expectation of an outcome, an expectation of something in return, and selflessness has no expectation of an outcome, and it has no expectation of something in return. And when we’re operating in relation to ourselves from a place where we can’t give ourselves compassion, and we can’t give ourselves empathy. Usually it means that we’re giving ourselves some kind of signal that we’re not enough that or some kind of there’s some kind of self criticism, there’s some kind of self judgment. There’s some kind of internal harsh dialog that’s saying you’re not worthy of this, or, look, you’re not enough, and so this didn’t happen. Or you need to sit down and do X amount of meditation every day, or else you’re not disciplined, or there’s so much that’s not empathy that we are kind of subconsciously bombarding ourselves with, but inherent and in those kinds of non empathic thoughts that we aren’t enough. Is this expectation? In that we should be better somehow. There’s some there are all kinds of ways that there actually can be expectations of ourselves, or expectation having an expectation of an outcome of what it is that we are or aren’t able to do when we are able to start to practice self compassion and self empathy. All we’re doing is validating what is what is there, and we’re not trying to change it. We’re not trying to fix it. And so there’s actually no expectation of an outcome. We’re just an acceptance of what’s there. And so practicing self empathy in this light is selfless, and being unable to be compassionate and to be empathic towards ourselves is, relatively speaking, selfish and I’d like to say too that it that when we aren’t empathetic to what’s going on inside, or towards our behaviors or towards the nature of our relationships, etc, and we are leaning more towards a place of insecurity, of feeling I’m not enough in this way, or I’m not worthy of this. It can turn into a sort of false humility, of I am so lowly, I am so fallen. And sometimes this kind of humility seems like a virtue, is touted as a virtue in in communities, right? Or especially I am. I am the most fallen. I’m the most lowly and the a great teacher the Godiva tradition once said, You are not the most anything.
But anyway, I just that kind of false humility is, is, is another way to avoid the real pain that’s there in believing that you’re so lowly and that you’re so fallen and truer or pure, humility does have Some of that. It does have this expression of being low in relation to another human being, another great spiritual figure, to even sacred texts. But what’s happening with that brand of lowliness is a couple things are going on. The first is, we’re conscious that we are. Are going low because by doing that, we’re allowing another person to share more of themselves with us. So we are. We are moving ourselves out of the way. If you can literally imagine someone going prostrate before a deity, or even just before the altar of another person’s heart, when you bow down, you’re removing yourself as an obstruction, but it’s for the purpose of allowing whatever the other party is a human or Ishta Devata or guru, you’re allowing them to take up more of that space and share more of who they are and what’s in their heart. But it can’t stop there. Humility that going low has to necessarily be coupled with, if you think of like like like, this is one axis. It has to be coupled with this other vertical axis of standing straight up and growing tall and asserting oneself, like we’ve been talking about preciousness, knowing my inherent preciousness, and that my, one of my teachers, like just likes to use the word passion for this. So it’s humility and passion. And so they have to go together, and if we stay with just the humility, then we are at risk of idolizing or participating in idolatry towards another person, and what that means is just making someone else into more i. In what they are, while simultaneously blaspheming ourselves and what do I need? What I mean by that is making ourselves into less than what we are. And conversely, if we’re too focused on the passion side, if we’re too focused on asserting ourselves and asserting our worthiness and preciousness and getting our needs met without the balance of the lowness, then it’s the opposite. Then we run the risk of idolizing ourselves, making ourselves into more than what we are, and blaspheming the people around us, making them into less than what we are. So the two create it’s a system of checks and balances, this humility and passion, and they work together in in all realms of our of our life, spiritually, socially, professionally, our relationship with ourselves. It permeates everything
Avi Gordon
as you’ve been sharing, a word that’s been coming up for me a lot is discovery, like the importance of discovery. Like, I can sense that a lot of what you’re sharing has been discovered by you. You know, like the truth of it has been discovered. And I just wonder about the emphasis maybe that discovery deserves and isn’t getting sometimes, even like these messages of you know, you have to get out and do something in the world and be productive, and you have something to prove. You know, I’m considering that even that comes from a place of wanting to share right, like someone has discovered that being productive for them has filled themselves up, right, has brought some good in their life. Feeling like I’m doing something that’s, that’s, that’s good, yeah, and often, I think, when we have those positive, important experiences right away, we want to, kind of, like force it onto someone else, but they might not be ready for that. There that forcing changes everything you know in the process of it. And there’s this fear around that of like, if people, if general society, didn’t feel this pressure that no one would do anything, I think that’s maybe the underlying fear, like things wouldn’t happen, we wouldn’t be productive. And I actually think it’s the exact opposite that getting to this neutral place of I don’t need to do anything. There’s nothing to prove, right? What comes out of that that’s gonna lead to something very good. That’s my belief.
Lila Shakti Mayi
Yeah, you know, yeah, I am. I completely agree, especially because when we create that space in our lives, I like that. I like that you use the word neutral, then the dynamic infinite completely abundant and fantastical kind of powers of the of the universe. That’s when they can come and do their thing. You know, it’s not a stagnant like it’s not a stagnant energy, where, if we become stagnant, then everything around us is going to remain that way, but, but creating spaciousness around us invites and is the way to tap into infinite possibility and And that that comes towards us when we allow it to by not forcing anything ourselves, yeah,
Avi Gordon
it’s like, I think, in deep meditation, coming to that place of emptiness, right? And I’ve talked to a lot of people about this and asked them, like, how do you really know what you know? For me, I know what I really know when the message comes through in that place, and I know it’s even not mine, it’s not mine, like there’s nothing. There’s complete contentment at the emptiness, right? And then this message comes in that feels like it’s just a gem, and it’s like, okay, this is truth. I don’t know where it came from, yeah, you know, and so just, I think, allowing for that, that discovery, it’s so hard. I think because we want to share, we want to share so much with others, what we find, but sharing is really tricky. Yeah,
Lila Shakti Mayi
it’s very astute. I’m liking where you’re going with this very
Avi Gordon
tricky even, even with service. Think about that. Like so many people feel like, yeah, like, pressure to serve. I’m supposed to serve, or I’m supposed to be selfless, right? Like, there’s a lot of pain to that. To me, I don’t think that’s really ever gonna work. The way that that works is when someone genuinely discovers the joy of service and that literally, I’m constructed to serve, and when I serve, and I pay attention to the way my heart feels when I serve, and then I look for opportunities to do but I have to come to all that on my own, not because some authority told me, yeah, you should serve and be careful about you being selfish, yeah,
Lila Shakti Mayi
yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s very it’s there’s a fine line between sharing truly for truly, with the intention to uplift and support and nourish someone else along their Path and sharing in a way that becomes disrespectful of their innate empowerment and their innate resourcefulness to navigate their souls. Experience one of my quote that I bring up often is the founder of nonviolent communication, Marshall Rosenberg, he says, in order to, in order to give advice to somebody, and I would, I would lump advice in with any sort of teaching or counseling or anything that’s coming from that place, in order to dole that out, he has to receive a request. It has to be in writing, notarized and in triplicate, otherwise he is not going to give advice. Wow. And, you know, I love that, and I think that that is that that is the way to go to truly honor and respect the fullness and the capability and the empowerment of someone else, and also if there’s something that we if we’re just feeling so effervescent and jubilant because of something that we’ve discovered in our lives and our lives that’s really working for us. We can always ask, Would you be willing to hear about this amazing thing that I’ve come across? And when we ask that, we would have to be willing to hear no, right? Yeah, yeah, that’s
Avi Gordon
incredible. I never heard that before about him. I love it, yeah, I try to think about it like this. Like to not the expectations are really what get me and have caused me pain when I want someone else to change. So much I want them to see,
Lila Shakti Mayi
yeah, what I see, yeah,
Avi Gordon
so that that’s hard, and that doesn’t seem to work as well either, but, and there’s a sense of lightness that’s missing, I think, in those exchanges, right? But instead, what I’ve been trying to do more of is it’s just an offering, and I have no expectation of it like I’m sharing, but I have no expectation that the person is going to choose to use what I’ve offered to do anything, but I’m still offering. What I found is that I offer a lot less, but still, when I do, I’m just like, all right, I’m saying it like, because I also don’t want to. I kind of went to the other side of it a little bit for a while. I would say and would not say anything, because I was like, they’re not going to understand what I’m saying, or they’re not going to do anything about it, right? Which is kind of the flip side to the previous experience, yeah. But ultimately, I think it’s just, it’s like something’s calling me to share, and I have no expectations of what’s going to happen. I’m just doing. I’m just saying these words, just because it feels right in this moment, yeah. And that’s it, yeah.
Lila Shakti Mayi
And that into that intuitive knowing to withhold or to proceed and and share is powerful and to I feel like that’s a muscle that we can develop that intuition, and it can be difficult to separate it out from the other voices on our head. But that intuition combined with a sort of very practical. Whole skill of discerning someone else’s receptivity, just like you said, you don’t know if some like some, you don’t think someone would even understand what it is that you might want to share. So kind of strengthening that ability just through living life, and through trying to be sensitive in our everyday interactions, that ability to discern whether or not someone might be receptive to what it is that you might feel called to share in your heart.
Avi Gordon
But it’s also tricky, yeah, oh yeah, to me, this is also where humility comes in into play, because I have to remind myself that sometimes I think I know and I’m wrong, you know, like the discern, like, Yes, I discern, and I feel for it, and I could be totally wrong,
Lila Shakti Mayi
yeah? And that’s okay, yeah, yeah. I think that’s yeah. That’s a very salient point for sure. Do you ever
Avi Gordon
like see this all as a game? Anything?
Lila Shakti Mayi
You know, I wish one of the things that I would like for myself is to feel, is to experience more lightness in my life, like Swami said it, and it says, life is for fun, and I feel like that’s one area that I really like to grow in, is just being more light hearted and playful and easeful in relation to this existence, and not not taking The work so seriously, or that’s something that I would really like for myself, so that I aspire to, okay,
Avi Gordon
but just to go a little bit more deeply into that, like, is it a game? Maybe it’s a game. Like, why would it not be a game?
Lila Shakti Mayi
Lee, I mean Leela means divine play means it means that, on the one hand, yes, it is, I think it is. It’s all just this playfulness of of the Divine. And there are these forces that come in and kind of put us behind this veil to act in ways to ultimately allow the Leela to unfold. And we may or may not even we probably don’t even know that we’re behind the veil, unless we think about these kinds of things. Yeah,
Avi Gordon
I like to, and the greatest amount of suffering I see within myself and others is taking this identity, this persona, too seriously. Like, that’s when, yeah, that’s when I really get get caught. How am I being seen? How am I being judged? Yeah, you know, by other people. Who is this person called Avi? You know? Yeah, all that is just like, now I just like, I feel like a tightening happening when, yeah, those thoughts even come through, you know,
Lila Shakti Mayi
yeah, how I feel like living in, choosing to live in community like this must be a very, must be very intentional in relation to wanting to make sure that you don’t stay in that place of restriction and tightness. How does, how does living in a place like yoga Ville
Avi Gordon
help with? Yeah, it’s well, like, right away I consider the relationship between internal and external, which I think is like, a fascinating thing to consider, right? But, yeah, it was very intentional for me. I saw that a part of my makeup is like being a social being, essentially, so I don’t negate the external or the internal. I think they’re both, you know, for a long time I was, you know, very strong about, I’m going to be me no matter what setting I’m in. It doesn’t matter like the setting, you know, like I didn’t want to, like, look at how what was going on around me was influencing me. But it really was like this question. I think this has to do a lot with what you’re interested in, too. Like, I’ve received a lot of benefit by zooming out and actually seeing it that it’s my responsibility, my number one job, to take care of. Avi, actually, this being Yes, yeah, yes. So when I look at it from that vantage point, I’m like, Well, how do I take care of him? It’s totally different, because I’m not in it, and then I could see more clearly. And it was, you know, put him in an environment where he can, you know, just be surrounded by people nature that’s going to allow for. Them to discover, investigate truth, essentially, yeah, and safety is so important. So yeah, safety, safety is big. So yeah, anyway, that’s the answer. I
Lila Shakti Mayi
love that you said that I love that you prioritized taking care of Avi, that that I feel like is such a courageous a courageous thing, not only to know and yourself, but to be able to say out loud, for some of the reasons we were talking about earlier, with the with the sort of common perceptions of what it is to be selfish. And I also love that you said it, because I don’t know whether you were planning on asking it or not, but I know I’ve heard you ask the question what matters to you, or what matters most to you, very frequently, and so I was trying to prepare to answer that question, no. But actually, I just love the way that this is coming together. Because when I was thinking about it, I caught myself. I thinking that my answer needed to be something that had to be something that had to do with service, something about how I have a something about the world around me, the people around me, and the influence that I have on on on them in a serviceful way, but that it needed to be other focused, like the best answer, the most humble answer, would be something that’s focused on others. And I had a moment where I said, Look, you’re real. Answer to that question is my needs. So to hear you say that in the same way is
Avi Gordon
beautiful. I don’t think these things are separate. I think the only reason I could say that out loud, and I do pretty often, and have no problem with it, because I have zero doubt that taking care of AVI is going to lead to the best ultimate thing for everyone around me. And it’s this relationship between self and others that, yeah, I think it’s much more fluid than we give credit. And then when I am serving, you know, I forget this. Of course, I forget. But ultimately, that is also a part of self care for Avi, that’s not separate from that. Yeah, that is too. I mean, I think about like, as an example when, so, yeah, like, I didn’t have children through my 20s, and didn’t have pets, and then finally, I was like, Okay, I’m going to get a dog right, because I needed that response, like taking that responsibility was a part of giving to avi what he needed, right? And then having children is a step above from that, but yeah, so these things are not separate. And I really, I hope that we have a different kind of we frame, start to frame this in a different way, yeah,
Lila Shakti Mayi
yeah, especially because the more that we truly know, like you said, as zero doubt that my needs matter, the more that I know that other people’s needs matter. So I think when we think about selfishness, it kind of stops, like, if someone asserts that my needs matter, there’s this assumption that, well, then that person just totally loses any radar they might have for other people’s needs, mattering and that it’s all about them, but, but actually it’s it’s the opposite. It’s the more that we have a sincere experience of that within ourselves, the more we know that it’s at it’s as true for everyone else around us. And then the interesting bit becomes going going about in the world, and being curious about what is it like to live in harmony in a way where my needs are met, but they’re met in a way that is honoring of and respectful of and supportive of contributing to other people’s needs being met as well. And I like to specify, just from sort of a more formal, non violent communication perspective, that needs are not a house, a spouse, a job, a family, a car, etc. The needs are the experiences that were that that are satisfied, the internal experiences that are satisfied by those things. So. So for a spouse or family, it would be the need for belonging, companionship, closeness, adventure, joy, humor. For things like a job or a house, it would be stability and security and spontaneity, freedom, choice, these things and so those, those things that we’re doing on the outside are all strategies to meet our needs. And the needs our needs are never in conflict with one another, because all of our needs are completely beautiful and completely innocent. I have, I have a mentor in compassionate communication, and that’s from her, but that all of these needs are it’s the strategies that we use to meet needs that have the potential of coming into conflict with one another and creating pain. But part of coming into needs awareness is that when we’re aware of the needs behind our actions, what? What are we trying to satisfy by behaving in this way? That awareness allows us to go from a single strategy to there being an infinite number of strategies that we could use to meet this need. But when we’re not aware of the need, the strategy seems like the need, and so it seems like the only thing, the only way to go. It’s like we have horse blinders on. Yeah,
Avi Gordon
makes me just consider the power of truth. You know, being aware that this is, this is really what’s going on. Like, this is the need, yeah, you know, underneath this desire strategy, yeah, whatever. Like, okay. Like, there’s a power in that, and being aware of that, yeah,
Lila Shakti Mayi
yeah, knowledge is power.
Avi Gordon
Yeah, awareness, yeah, awareness is power. That’s what I learned, too, is like, I don’t even need to take it further than that, than just being aware and then have faith in the awareness,
Lila Shakti Mayi
yeah. Oh, that’s beautiful, yeah, yeah. Also,
Avi Gordon
something I considered that helped in terms of, you know, my number one job is to take care of AVI is like, similar to what you’re saying. I wonder what would the world look like if everyone saw it as their number one job to take care, and to me, it’s also just like, practical, like, it makes sense, like, right? So much pain and suffering in trying to change what is outside, right? But I have direct control. I know that I am a part of this thing. You know, that’s larger than myself. I have no doubt in that. But there also is an intimacy in terms of my relationship with myself. I have more direct control over this thing. And because I have more direct control, it deserves more of my attention, because I can actually do something about it.
Lila Shakti Mayi
Yeah, yeah. And, and that becomes exemplary, it becomes a way of unintentionally, unintentionally being a role model for having that disposition, internal disposition when you’re facing the external world, is something that, without even trying, will show others that it’s okay to be that to to conduct oneself, that that way as well it’s safe.
Avi Gordon
It will show some others that it’s okay. Others will also resent you for it.
Lila Shakti Mayi
A touch. Yes, I appreciate your that balance, that balanced perspective.
Avi Gordon
I was also considering that. You know, I think I also have a need to not always get what I want. You know, I don’t know what there. I’m sure there’s probably like a deeper need there spontaneity
Lila Shakti Mayi
or surprise or adventure or friction,
Avi Gordon
because friction leads to growth. Okay, I see, you know, perhaps, yeah, it’s something with, with with Zen, that you know she wants to get what she wants so much and so, like, naturally, it’s like, well, it’s not always going to happen, not always going to be able to get what you want. And it’s no different from for us as adults like that’s one of the lessons that nature seems to be teaching us, is that, yeah, we there’s so much we don’t control. Yeah, yeah. And I need to learn that again and again.
Lila Shakti Mayi
There’s that that reminds me. There’s a beautiful, uh. Just little saying by he was a Christian worship artist in, I think, the like the 80s and 90s. He passed away tragically, unfortunately, in the mid 90s. But his name is Rich Mullins, and there’s this little clip I have of him where he says that God does not answer our prayers according to our understanding, but according to his wisdom, and so you might not be we might not be getting what we think, that we want according to our understanding, but that desire, or that prayer, if it’s if we put it out in the form of a prayer, that that’s still being honored, 100% still being honored and responded to but according to that higher wisdom,
Avi Gordon
yeah, yeah. Now, yeah, I love that. I don’t know if it was Guru Dev who said this or it’s from someplace else, but essentially, that the highest form of prayer is, I don’t know what’s best for me. You know, what’s best for me. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, takes the pressure off. Yeah. Totally takes the pressure off. I like taking the pressure off. Was there anything else about compassionate communication that you wanted to share? I know you’ve been diving pretty deeply into this. I
Lila Shakti Mayi
feel so fulfilled with all the ways that it’s just naturally been a part of our conversation. Yeah,
Avi Gordon
what do you hope for yourself in the future
Lila Shakti Mayi
that I Yes, I feel love within myself in a way that is
expansive and yet complete enough to
allow me to fully trust myself. Yeah,
Avi Gordon
this relationship with the heart. You know, yes, it’s interesting. Like, do you find that, like, you tune in more, like, physically, like, directly, the mind, focusing on the heart itself. There’s, like, a relationship happening there. It’s
Lila Shakti Mayi
interesting. You put it that way. There’s, there’s this little phrase, and the Bhagavad Gita that I use the Sanskrit, I forget which verse it’s in, but the Sanskrit is Mano redee, and that means calming the mind, or stopping the mind from within the heart. Um, yeah, I don’t know the sort of the technicalities I think of what goes on between here and here at this point in my evolution, but, but I definitely can tell when I am all up here to the neglect of what’s going on in here. And I think that my my journey with compassion and with empathy has been the bridge between the two. And also recently, I mean, this is just very sort of practical, but tuning more into especially this time of year and autumn, tuning more into the earth element and using like the earth mudra to try and actually sort of bring like gravitate my my mind and my mental energy farther down in my system, and draw it down into into the heart. But they’re always going to work in tandem, and I think they need to trust one another.
Avi Gordon
Yeah, beautiful.
Lila Shakti Mayi
Thank you so much. Thank you, Avi, yeah, yeah, it was a pleasure. Thanks
Speaker 1
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Compassionate Communication for Greater Connectedness
March 14-16
